Teri DeMarco is an unschooling mom of three: twin 10-year-old sons and an 8-year-old daughter. I met her in person last year and when I decided to do a technology-focused episode I knew she’d be a great person to chat with!
Quote of the Week
“If you have a lens of ‘What is the educational value? What are they learning?’ that is a layer that goes in front of that relationship. And it doesn’t need to be there, because your kids will reveal to you all that they’re learning when they are in the flow of the relationship.” ~ Teri DeMarco
Questions for Teri
Can you share with us a bit about you and your family and how you discovered unschooling?
When it comes to technology, the conventional term that gets thrown around a lot is “screen time.” I personally don’t like the term for a couple of reasons. What’s your take?
One of the first steps in pulling apart and examining the technology issue is recognizing all the learning that is happening—and all the joy and fun! What has your journey with the technology issue looked like?
If a parent is concerned about the amount of time a child is spending, say watching TV or playing video games, instead of immediately imposing limits to fit their comfort zone, how might they explore the situation to discover what’s up? There are so many possibilities, aren’t there?
Something that can unnerve parents is when their child gets angry when asked to stop playing a video game or watching TV. Fear can quickly have them interpreting that behaviour as “addicted” and blaming the technology. But when we look at the situation from the child’s perspective, things can look very different, can’t they?
One of the big aha moments for me when I was examining my attitude toward technology was the realization that my children learned so much more about weaving technology into their lives through actual experience—like they have learned so many other things through unschooling. What are some of the things you’ve seen your children learn about life with digital tech?
As always with unschooling, it’s important to be engaged with our children, whatever their interest or passion. One of the concerns I hear regularly is that parents feel disconnected from their children because they are engaged in their interests through technology. Let’s talk about some of the ways we can engage with our children “even when” they are using digital tools.
Links to Things Mentioned in the Show
The Childhood Redefined conference (we’re putting together an online version right now)
Map of the many places Joseph’s video game play took him
Minecraft on YouTube: Sky Does Minecraft and Stampy Longhead
E3: Electronic Entertainment Expo
Some games: Roblox, Subnautica on Steam
Finding Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s book, Finding Flow
Carol Dweck’s book, Mindset
Unschooling Gamers Facebook group
Teri’s blog: The Urban Unschooler
Teri’s also on Facebook
Pam’s blog post diving into the mainstream mantra, “You Have to Limit Screen Time”
Pam’s article, Everything I Need to Know I Learned from Video Games
Episode Transcript
Thought I had commented before, but guess I didn’t click “post”!
Thanks so much for this great discussion that is so relevant to my family’s situation. I have had to struggle with issues such as “screen time” and “balance” (actually had a Q&A question that touched both in the December podcast!). By following my son’s joy and trusting him and myself, I have come to feel as you do, but there is so little social support for this position—opposition from all quarters! So it is nice to know that there are others out there and to hear you explain your positions and your experiences so well.
Thanks, Terri, for sharing your experiences, and thanks, Pam, for being there every week with your own insights and helpful discussions for those of us who are new to this.
Thanks, Susan, I’m glad you are finding the podcast discussions helpful—it’s definitely an unconventional lifestyle. And happy to hear that things are going well with your son. 🙂
Well, after that podcast, I think I’m finally ready to jump off the edge into ‘no limits-screen land’. And that’s exactly what it feels like, jumping off the edge of something! I’m totally freaked out and haven’t told the kids yet but I’m working up the guts to do it. My kids already have a lot of screen time, they only have to get off from 9-3pm on weekdays and can still use screens in that time for creative work like building on Minecraft. And they all have their own computers so there’s none of this having to wait for a turn business. I’ve never questioned the learning that happens on their computers, whether they’re watching or gaming. In fact, I would say that most of their ‘schooly’ learning happens there. But I still wanted them to have some balance. I wanted them to do a variety of things, not just computers. I wanted them to get out in the ‘real world’ and use their real bodies. But I also want to find ways to love myself more and to find more joy in my life and I want my kids to be able to find more joy in Their lives. And limiting their screen time is Not bringing me joy, and it doesn’t feel good. So even if removing limits means they spend their entire lives on their computers, even if I’m ‘wrong’ for doing that (and that’s where the fear comes from – fear that I’m wrong and screwing up their lives), I still want to remove the limits, because I would rather feel good than be ‘right’. So thank-you, Pam and Terri. It really helps to have someone further along the path to listen to.
Hi Sarah,
I love that you’re coming at it with the goal of finding more joy in everyone’s lives—the kids and yours. It’s great to see it as a choice you’re making. 🙂
And I’m so glad you found the conversation helpful. If you want to check out Susan’s question on the December Q&A episode, it’s here: http://livingjoyfully.ca/blog/2016/12/eu052-qa-round-table/
I hope you’re having fun!
Super interesting discussion. Wondering what you are doing, if anything, to mitigate against some of the physiological effects of heavy technology use (myopia, circadian rhythm disruption, etc.)
Am I right to say you don’t believe in internet/tech addiction as an actual thing? I’m reading the transcript of this interview and am only part-way through it, so forgive me if you actually answer this in the podcast. Thanks!!
Hi Kristin!
We talked about ways to address physiological effects of tech use in episode 52, a Q&A Round Table.
And we did talk about the idea of addiction later on in the episode. I hope you found it as you kept reading. 🙂
Glad you found the discussion interesting!
I’ve read and re-read the transcript, and still not seeing if you believe internet/tech addiction is an actual possibility in some people. Am I missing it? Thanks!
Hi Kristin,
To me, that’s not really a thing to “believe in.” It’s about exploring how we engage with the world, and helping our children do the same. We have choices—we’re always making choices. To give that power away to inanimate objects gets in the way of us learning about ourselves.
It’s more valuable to notice the choices we’re making, how they work out, how we feel about them and why, what choice we may want to make next time, and then do it all over again. Over and over. That’s real learning through experience. And if our children are making choices we don’t understand, my experience is that I’m not understanding what they’re getting out of it so I dive in with them to discover it, rather than stopping them.
That’s a really short answer but we’ve talked about technology quite a bit on the podcast, especially in the Q&A episodes. I’ve tagged them so they’re easier to find and dive in: http://livingjoyfully.ca/blog/tag/technology/
It’s such a fascinating topic! 🙂
Oh how much I love this episode! i wanted to thank both of you but don’t know how to contact Teri without my email falling into that dreaded “other” folder on facebook haha. so if she reads the comments here, thank you so much for this podcast Pam & Teri! This is one I will listen to over and over 🙂
So glad you enjoyed it! 😀
What an awesome episode! I feel so much more confident in my decision to unschool my kids so thank you, thank you, thank you! So much wisdom that is really going to support my growth in moving towards a more connected way of raising my family! So grateful!?
What an awesome episode! I feel so much more confident in my decision to unschool my kids so thank you, thank you, thank you! So much wisdom that is really going to support my growth in moving towards a more connected way of raising my family! So grateful!?